Brazil's Lula pushes for serious climate action ahead of COP30

Brazil's President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva on Tuesday urged for more action and less talk before the UN climate talks in the Amazon, emphasising the need to address the escalating threats of catastrophic global warming.

In an interview with AFP and other news agencies, Lula, 80, prepares to host the "best COP yet", where 50 heads of state will  attend a meeting on Thursday and Friday in the rainforest city of Belém, before COP30 gets underway next week. 

The arrival of around 50,000 visitors in Belém has caused chaos around accommodation, with rising prices raising concerns that visitors from poorer nations are being excluded.

"When we decided to hold COP here... we already knew the conditions of the city. And we decided to do it here because we didn't want comforts, we wanted challenges. And we wanted the world to come and see the Amazon," said Lula.

He added that the friendliness and local cuisine would make every visitor feel at home and that they would "leave a little fatter because they will eat well."

In the interview, Lula spoke on a range of burning issues from US attacks on alleged drug-trafficking boats in Venezuela, to Brazil's efforts to get Washington to lift trade tariffs.

He also described a police operation against a powerful drug gang in Rio de Janeiro that left 121 dead as a "massacre, despite many residents weary of crime welcoming the heavily armed group that controls large parts of the city.

Here are excerpts from the interview, edited for clarity.

Climate action is facing one of its toughest moments, with nations distracted by trade wars and conflict, and scientific warnings that the planet could exceed the 1.5°C warming target. How can we avoid failure at this COP?

"I'm sure we'll have the best COP yet. We want to see if it's possible to launch a new phase of implementation for the COP, because here's the thing: enough talking, now we have to implement what we've already discussed."

What will be Brazil's priorities at COP30?

 "We want to approve the Tropical Forest Forever Fund (TFFF), which is an investment fund. Brazil has already deposited US$1 billion. It will finance countries that keep their forests standing. 

"We want to create an Environment Council, linked to the UN, with a bit more power, so that when a decision is made here, that council can travel the world monitoring the results. 

"We also want to propose a roadmap for reducing fossil fuels. To start a discussion about it. It's not easy."

Brazil's government has been accused of contradictions in its environmental policy with the recent approval of an oil exploration project near the mouth of the Amazon River. How do you justify the decision?

 "It would be inconsistent if I said we're not going to use any more oil. If we discover the oil we believe we have, we'll have to start from scratch to obtain an [exploitation] licence. And you can be sure of one thing: we will do it as carefully as possible. We will not put at risk something we consider beneficial to humanity [the Amazon]."

Are you concerned about the US operation against alleged drug boats near the Venezuelan coast?

"The Americans could try to help these countries [in the fight against drug-trafficking], instead of trying to shoot them. I don't want us to reach the point of a US ground invasion of Venezuela. 

"I told President Trump... that political problems are not solved with weapons -- they are solved through dialogue. If dialogue is lacking, I offered my assistance in any way they believe Brazil can help."

Last month, you met with US President [Donald] Trump in Kuala Lumpur and expressed optimism about quickly resolving the issue of US tariffs imposed on Brazil. How are those negotiations progressing?

"There was an initial meeting. And now [several government ministers] are prepared to schedule another one. If it happens, they will go to Washington to negotiate. 

"But by the time COP ends, if there still hasn't been a meeting, I'll have no problem calling President Trump, or going to Washington. I hope he won't have any problem coming to Brazil either."

How do you view last week's police operation in Rio that killed 121 people and sparked outrage from the UN and other organisations?

"There was a massacre, and I think it's important to verify the circumstances under which it occurred. So far, we only have the state government's version, and there are people who want to know if everything happened as they say. From the perspective of the role of the state, [the operation] was disastrous."